Flagship Pod: Why Gas Prices Will Keep Going UpJun 13, 2022
Every single Thursday we host a live discussion in our Discord channel at 5:00pm EST.
This gives you the opportunity to ask us questions and hear our thoughts on the things you want answers to!
Here's what we went over:
Why oil prices will keep going up
How inflation & the markets will play out over the next 12 months
- What market segments should we be paying attention to
The ways we're adjusting our offshore portfolio
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Check out the rest of the transcript below!
From moby.co, this is the Flagship Pod, a weekly podcast going into the market, the economy, and the various economic forces shaping the world around you. As always, I'm your host, Peter Starr bringing you, this time, a market in deep red as the CPI print comes out a little spicer than expected. We've got a lot of really interesting follow-up from that to get through as the market continues to sell off here on a Friday. I think bear market's back folks. We're not quite in full-on bear territory, but we're getting pretty close. As always, here to discuss that with me is our CEO, co-founder and Chief Analyst, Justin Kramer. Justin dude, what's good? How are you surviving the deep red we're playing with right now on the DJI?
Yeah, just more fun, day-to-day volatility, week-to-week, month-to-month, whatever you want to measure the actual period over. It's to be expected. Unfortunately, given the inflation numbers that come out today, we sent a blurb about this out earlier this week, talking about that if inflation was up a lot, the market would sell-off. If inflation was down, we'd see the opposite effect. So we'll dive into the details of what to expect going forward.
And we tweeted actually about, very briefly, just our kind of thoughts on energy prices, which we can dive into more today regarding our new number one pick. But long story short, I think a lot of people are underestimating the downstream effects from a lot of the bans of Russian oil imports and some other things. So like I said, we'll dive into it. It's definitely scary out there, but like everything, anyone who's been invested in the market for a while, and Peter, you say this all the time, it's about how much time is in the market, rather than just picking the right stocks over the long run, things tend to go up. Obviously, we're here to help you find the right investments, but conviction, long-term holding, helps mitigate a lot of these shorter-term risks.
Exactly, and it's one of those things too, where there's just so much to unpack here as well. So hopefully we don't get too deep in the weeds of macro and all that, but we're seeing these two competing forces of rising inflation and diminishing consumer sentiment that's going to result in a lot of pain for retail in the short term, probably. As well as, one thing we're really hoping to see, was the CPI come out a little bit cooler than it did, because that would indicate that inflation was peaking pre-summer because the main drivers for inflation right now are obviously energy costs. Like energy is just out of control. Simply because of, like you're saying, a lot of the complex fallout from banning Russian oil, trying to sanction Russia, trying to stop this ludicrous invasion happening over there.
So a lot of complicated fallout from that. Especially now that we are gearing up for the summer travel season, which is when you see energy prices inflate a little bit, just naturally. The US likes to have air conditioning and all of that stuff, as well as, drive around, both those things cost energy, and those energy costs come in the form of oil and natural gas.
So you're going to see those prices pop even more, push inflation up even more. So it's one of those things where we're going to be seeing the heat until the summer, but hopefully we can see some positive directions. Obviously the fed is scrambling right now to figure out, are they going to get more aggressive about quantitative tidying as well as their interest rate rising? We'll see. So a lot of things to get into.
Let's go ahead and just keep jumping right into it.
So Justin, let's just talk about that. If you look at the CPI print, is it mainly energy doing the driving here or are we seeing any other expenses in that CPI breakdown that are breakout forces? As we think about the inflationary pressure on the market right now.
So energy is an interesting root cause, if you will. So price of energy drives up the price of everything, it's similar to how, if anyone's in real estate, the price of real estate dries up things. So if you live in New York or San Francisco or some of these expensive cities, because real estate costs so much, then the people who then buy the stores need to charge more for their goods in order to make money. And there's just a lot of downstream effects of the actual infrastructure costing a lot. So it's the same thing with energy.
And so right now, and this is something, honestly, no one is talking about. Right now, oil is not oil. And so what I mean by that is getting oil from one place versus getting oil from another place, it's not homogeneous where you can just replace it. It's not like you're getting H2O, and it's the same thing as H2O somewhere else. Oil is different. So the oil that you drill in Russia is very different than the oil that's drilled in the United States. And so right now with the US and Europe doing a lot of banning of Russian oil importation, and other constraints on Russia. There's two major effects going on right now. And I'll start with energy, I'll move towards food prices and that should hopefully answer the overwhelming issue regarding just the inflation we're seeing here and how the fed just... I don't think they can do enough at this point. I think it's a little too late. But effectively, I'll give summaries of both.
So the first one is the oil, like I said, there's different types of oil. There's heavy oil, there's light oil, there's things in between. And the way it works is that some are better for extracting fuel for diesel, others, for gasoline and jet fuel and all across as such. So right now basically, you have to get that oil, refine it, and then you ultimately are able to then push it past the different parts of the supply chain. So right now for the companies, or oil companies, that have a refinery and they're set up on heavy oil, they usually source all that oil from Russia, Canada, or Venezuela. Those are the three main places you get it. But if these refineries are unable now to start getting Russian oil and want to source it from these other countries, they run into these unique challenges. So first, if they want to do it themselves like Texas, which is the primary producer of oil in the United States, is predominantly light oil. And those refineries are not set up to run on light oil, they're set up to run up on heavy oil. So you just can't replace Russia's oil with Texas' oil, it doesn't work like that. Which I don't think most people realize. And so if you did that though, the company, ultimately, if they wanted to replace oils, would have to build an entirely brand new refinery. So you basically have one option, two options. You either build this refinery or you try and find a new source of oil.
So let's say you want to find a new source of oil for Russia. It's not really a good option because the other options, like we said, are Canada and Venezuela. Canada, the Keystone Pipeline got shut down. So really getting oil from them at scale isn't much of a reality. And doing it from Venezuela, there's a ton of geopolitical issues that I don't even think we need to dive into. Past that, we have the Delaware Basin in the US which we can source. But again, it's not fully sustainable in the long run. So ultimately, that leaves a lot of companies that need to rebuild their refineries for light oil specifically.
But they have to then go get the machines, they have to set up new processes, it takes time and it's expensive. And on top of that, because inflation is so high, buying all the equipment that they'll need since it's such a capital-intensive process, is ultimately going to then make prices even more expensive on energy. So this Russian oil thing isn't necessarily just a supply constraint that pushes energy prices up. It gets multiplied when all of the refineries that then push it downstream, have to completely re-change the way they operate. So you have this supply crunch on top of now what is ultimately a entirely new infrastructure crunch. So that's just one side of the equation.
And now if energy prices go up, transporting food from one area of the country to another, or for other countries costs more money. If you want to have shipping containers send food, goods, from other parts of the world to the US and vice versa, now energy prices go up so it makes those food prices go up because the transportation costs for the suppliers go up and then keep moving down the value chain. But by the time it gets to the consumers, it just keeps getting more and more expensive. And that's why we see inflation at sky high numbers. On top of that, when you start looking at other commodity prices like food, Russia is also one of the biggest exporters, not only of wheat, but which most people don't realize is fertilizer. And we're about to move into fertilizer season here in the US, and I'm not sure-
And not just any kind of fertilizer, the most important kind. Russia is one of the top exporters of phosphorus, which is a extraordinarily key ingredient in the whole fertilizer stack. Sorry to get all chemist on you, bro.
Yeah, no. I mean, you're the science guy for me, so feel free to jump in and interrupt whenever you want. And I know I'm talking for a while, but this is a pretty important point. But effectively, that then, fertilizer, that we can't necessarily import anymore is also going to start going up significantly in price. And farmers and people who are in the food industry, which isn't your average day-to-day person are starting to feel it. And because now fertilizer costs more to get, it costs more money also to get it here, then there's going to be more of a supply crunch, more of an infrastructure and that crunch, and that leads to more inflation. But we haven't felt it necessarily there yet. But I think that's where we're going next. Again, these are quote, unquote more boring topics, so you don't hear people talking about it. But this is ultimately what's going to lead us to that next point of where I think inflation continues to get worse necessarily than get better.
And when you look at Russia specifically, this may be really hard to believe, but they're actually running their country just purely from a monetary standpoint, nothing political, social. They're running their country pretty efficiently. They don't really need to import anything if they didn't want to. So all these bans we're putting on Russia, yeah it hurts them, but they actually run their budget at a surplus, or they have. If you've been paying attention to the debt crisis that America is in, I think it's over $30 trillion in debt. There's a real debt issue with rising interest rates that just becomes so much more worse as we're borrowing from so many places.
But Russia is fully self-sufficient. If they turned off all of their imports, they'd actually still be able to survive. The reason they're able to do that so well is because they actually have an insanely massive stockpile of gold. I think it's like hundreds of billions of dollars that they can arbitrage with other people and trade for the goods they need with countries that are willing to do it. The only real import is things they want, not necessarily things they need. They import entertainment, they import foreign goods. But if we enter into a period of war or something, they need to shut down their borders. They're one of the only developed countries that is actually completely self-sustaining to a certain extent.
So this is getting a little off topic, but the reason we're getting there is ultimately this fight with Russia is going to have a lot more implications than I think most people realize. And inflation ultimately is going to run a lot longer than people realize. Been talking for like 10, 15 minutes so I'll pause there. But it's a good explanation I think you'll get here that you're not going to get anywhere else.
Absolutely. And I just want to reiterate a couple of points real fast, not to talk for 15 minutes or anything. But I want you to keep in mind, audience, that our energy crisis, is not a crisis of supply. It's a crisis of refining capacity. And simply because you have to be very specifically designed for certain kinds of oil. We can just drill the bejesus out of the Permian Basin and all of that oil would have to go to refineries in the Southeast, which are pretty well full up because they're already getting most of their oil from Texas. I want you to think about the intro to the Sopranos, that's our problem right now. Those refineries on the East Coast are primarily for that heavy oil. And again, there's a lot of things you could do. The Keystone Pipeline only affects like 1% of that, but every percent counts at this point. So just to contextualize that a little bit for you.
I mean, personally, I'm of the view that if everyone's going to call Joe Biden a socialist anyway, say to heck with it, be legends and just legitimize the Venezuelan government and import from there. That's literally never going to happen. So I can say that to be a troll, but it's one of those things. And the other thing too is, when you think about that kind of comparison, remember, when you hear people talking about American empire and that socioeconomic issue, this is the cost of it. The United States is the end consumer for the entire world market. The world depends on us to buy everything essentially. And so that's why we can hammer Russia with all these sanctions and they can kind of keep going because people don't really depend on Russian consumers.
First of all, there's not a lot of them, it's a much smaller country than America. And in the same breath, that's the way we've kind of set things up. It's just kind of a consequence of the Cold War. That's how, in the seventies and eighties, we figured we could literally spend our way into winning the Cold War. So a lot of complex fallout from really, really big historical issues that are just hitting us right now. So it's not just one, oh, the president hit the high gas prices button again, how dare they. It's one of those things where, you're missing a lot even trying to talk about it. Justin and I can literally have an eight hour long podcast and not even scratch 1% of the surface here. And so what we are seeing here is because of this diminished refining capacity, it's going to cascade hard.
And so Justin, as we think about that, as we look into various ways to play that. It's one of those things where it's really feeling 1975y. I've said that a lot, but it's one of those things where it's a overheated downturn getting slammed with inflation as well. So it's like, where do I even put my money? Because inflation and a market downturn are competing investing forces because you just say buy the dip in a downturn, but inflation causes other things to downturn more severely than others. So it's a really, really, really tough not to unravel here.
And so, as you're thinking about that, Justin, how are you looking at this overall downturn? The CPI basically ended a nice little two week bear market rally we had, and we are fully... We're not in bear territory yet, the S&P still at 39 and it will only be officially a bear market when that hits 38. But as you look at that, and as we look at the potentiality of next month, them announcing it's actually a recession once we see two negative quarters of GDP growth. How do you think about our philosophy as finding a way to find at least decently strong investments during a period of what can only be described as just, not pandemonium, but an easy place to get confused in?
Yeah, it's a good question. And you allude to the 1970 stuff. And I think that's a good analogy, but it's also, we're in a period where I don't think anything's happened like this in the last few hundred years. I saw a reference the other day, which obviously, unless you're a historian, you're not going to have context for, but basically, and I'll be brief with this. In the 17th century in England, King James there spent an insane amount of money on ships, travel, exploration, which is considered super high tech for the time. Going from America or Europe to America was us going to Mars or the moon. And so they were a really high tech society and ultimately spend a ton of money to the degree that they couldn't sustain themselves. Ended up being a huge problem for them, and I don't need to go into the history lesson, but ultimately led to a massive pullback for them, and then so on and so forth.
That's effectively kind of where we are now, which sounds hilarious. But just from a mathematical standpoint, we can't afford to do what we're doing right now. It can't be sustained. There's probably not a good parallel, other parallel, I can draw to, but that's probably the closest right now. But with us just printing and printing money. It was going to catch up to us eventually, but we've been doing it for so long that it just felt normal for most people. At this point, I actually think this is when it's starting to come to terms with us. So the outlook is continuing to be grim.
Things can change pretty quickly. If we change how we get our oil, how we supply it. If we do fix the supply chains, things can get fixed. It's just a lot of it revolves around this whole notion of a world being integrated together so people need to play nicely together. Which, I mean, look at Russia and Ukraine, who's to ever say when that's going to come to terms and things be okay, it's impossible to predict. But at least in the short term, what we can do is start looking for investments that both are sliding down now that we know will rebound in the future. When the market hits the bottom, it's impossible to say, no one on planet earth can say when it's going to bottom out, exactly. We can just use the data we have and the information to ultimately make the next kind of selections, but continue to dollar-cost, averaging down. So when it does rebound, we can ultimately get the stocks on the upside.
Outside of that, I think we're talking about a lot of energy stocks looking at that company TPL, which is our new number one pick. They're in an interesting position as the largest landowner in all of Texas in the Permian Basin, which is an extremely high area that people drill for oil in the US. As one of the largest landowners, they ultimately will need to drill, drill more and more oil here, they will have a lot of these oil rights and oil royalties that they'll get from companies drilling on their land. We look at ExxonMobil, we look at Chevron, we look at other companies, they're starting to ramp up production significantly in the areas where they own land.
On top of that, they have water rights, they have land rights, they're an interesting stock that also people aren't covering. It's one name, it's not necessarily, let's go invest our entire portfolio there tomorrow. But in the short term, it's definitely a good area that I think should continue to do well. Within the energy sector, and then past that, continue allocating towards safer names that will pay. Dividends are strong fundamentally, we're looking for value names now that are growing responsibly rather than just growth at all costs. So, it's a long-winded way of saying the outlook is going to continue to be grim for some time, but this is just part and natural of economic cycles.
Exactly. Natural, but not one of those things where we need one. And I think that's a very important distinction. As you look to this audience, you hear a lot of people saying, "Well, we need a recession." No one ever needs a recession. Every recession is due to some kind of policy failure, but the interesting thing is watching these market cycles, you see each individual downturn take less and less time as we refine this century-long experiment and neoliberal capitalism. So just keep that in mind too. Don't believe the hype where people say, "Yeah, we need this recession." No, no, no, no. This was a failure of policy. The fed should have maybe jumped on this a lot sooner than they did, but the coronavirus was a historically weird monkey wrench to throw in the works. So it's one of those things where it's a little bit hard to determine what the exact right move was. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that.
The goal is figuring out ways where we can pull out of this downturn. But looking at that, it's one of those things where you have to be careful about buying the dip too and finding individual trends. That's why we kind of shifted a lot of our research into pharmaceuticals and healthcare stocks as that's having its own localized recovery outside of the broader market, because they were getting hammered by COVID harder than most other plays. Obviously, energy's going to be a big deal right now too. One thing I'm also doing is I'm adding to my positions in US series I bonds. I'm going full grandpa mode on this, just to hedge my bets. Series I bonds are a variable interest rate bond that you can buy directly from the government online, ustreasurydirect.gov, I think it's called. Type in series I bonds, that's currently returning a semi-annualized rate of 9.62%, which, you're beating inflation by a percentage point. May as well play the game, right?
The only caveat is you're only allowed about $10,000 a year worth of investments. You can buy them as a gift for your family and friends and children and all that too. So you can get around that cap, so to speak. But in the same breath, it's also one of those things you have to watch closely as the rate changes every six months or so. So it's only 9.62% until October, which maybe it'll go up since inflation went up too, we'll have to see. If inflation goes down, those rates will go down. So they're not one of those things where, long term, if you think inflation get under control really quickly, maybe it's not the best investment since you have to let it at least sit for a year. So you have to look at all of these things too.
And the main thing you have to do is maybe not look at to buying the dip just yet. I'm waiting on a conservative measure of letting the NASDAQ and the S&P reclaim their 200-day moving average, both of which are, the NASDAQ's down about 17% from its 200 day. The S&P this morning was only down 6%, but Lord knows where it is now. I haven't done the math yet. I can't do math on the fly, you can't make me do it. I won't. So just keeping that in mind as well, when you're looking at this, you're looking for those more conservative plays right now, because you want to at least maintain some levels of short term returns during this time. And you don't want to waste too much of your dry powder before the, air quote's, actual bottom. Again, you're not trying to time the market, you're trying to maintain time in the market. So keep your slices small, try to DCA your way into this as much as possible dollar-cost average.
And it's one of those things where the only thing that can cause you to fail this moment is being a forced seller. So that means, you're forced to sell your stocks before you're ready. You're forced to give up a position before you're ready. So always make sure, especially now more than ever, that you're budgeting aggressively, you're expanding your emergency fund to maybe be more in the six month to eight month range, if possible. And you're keeping a long term view on your investments, because trying to go leverage right now, trying to YOLO your life savings, hoping this downturn ends quickly, probably not the best move.
It's one of those things where there's a lot, so much, going on too. I just mentioned WallStreetBets for the fourth time. We didn't even talk about the SCC looking into potentially killing payment for order flow, which is absolutely gigantic news for retail investors. What happens when commission-less trading goes away. There's a lot, a lot, a lot in this market right now. And all we had to do was cover just the one tiny, massive emergency, which is the CPI print. And so that was 20 minutes on one quarter of what we wanted to talk about there, Justin. So my bad, dude. As we get into this too-
Yeah. And I mean, there's a lot going on right now.
Exactly, yeah. And so it's just one of those things where we just have to focus down on all of these little issues too. So let me round this out, getting to a bunch of audience questions. Justin, obviously everyone is super hyped up about our offshore portfolio, our quantitative team just updated that strategy. Can you kind of take us through, again, our quantitative side and our offshore strategy and how we're thinking about it? Because it's one area that's showing interesting returns during a period where returns are kind of goofy.
Yeah, definitely. I mean the offshore strategy, essentially in a nutshell, is targeting high quality and high growth names in foreign countries. So typically you can think of them as emerging markets. Specifically, these portfolios are designed to find these undervalued companies, invest in them and then they update once a month, basically on the associated metrics. We use quantitative models using AI, which is a fancy way for just saying, we build tech, apply a set of rules, and then let the computers and software do the rest. But effectively, the way you can think about them is you see them, you mirror them, you trade them elsewhere, and then you update them. It can be a little frustrating to trade all these stocks as soon as we update them. But that's why we're building the ability to do trading on the platform soon, which we're really excited about. That's going to be a ways away before we release it. But it should make executing this much easier.
But outside of that, the way we're thinking about this emerging one, and the reason it's doing so well, is right now, everything's down. It's hard to be up. So what we're looking for in terms of out-performance, isn't always positive. It just beating the index, because in the long run, the index always goes up. So if you can beat the index in the short term, then in the long run, you'll be gaining more wealth. So when we look at their emerging markets index, they're a market index for the emerging markets relative to the domestic markets, is actually really similar, which shouldn't be surprising. But effectively for the same level of risk as the emerging markets, if not a little bit less, we are actually outperforming on the upside.
The markets are down four and a half percent over the last month. And this strategy is up pretty significantly as well. It's up 5% in the last month, and we always preach long-term investing. So we won't say how amazing this is because it's just one month, but it just is more indicative of the fact that these strategies are designed to not only limit your downside, but then give you upside as well. And it's a really good way to park assets if you're not trying to pick single stocks, these are portfolio strategies that you can allocate at your portfolio level, and gives you a nice blend of the benchmark while also again, outperforming and taking less risks.
So the one with the emerging markets in particular, because we have a handful of them for our premium members. This one in particular did really well. We actually did a lot of rebalancing the last month and there's a lot of details about it on the site, but effectively our thesis for the last year or two has really proved to do well, which is finding high-quality, high-growth names and looking if they're undervalued and investing in them. It's not the sexiest strategy in the world, but boring is what is doing well right now.
And I will add one little thing there audience, one low quality, bitter childish, immature thing. I just want to point out that there's always going... We haven't really revealed this, but there's always going to be a tiny, minor rivalry internally at moby.co between the journalism team and the quant team. Journalism team uses traditional, fundamental analysis, a little bit of statistics and a lot of just learning narratives, reading marketing [inaudible 00:25:36], all of that stuff, to make their picks that you see on our YouTube channel, see, in some cases, in our written stuff. Whereas, the quantitative team is entirely quantitative using data models. I just want to point out that the rebalance of this portfolio is heavier on Alibaba. Which, if you're trusting the journalism team here at moby.co, you've been playing that game for months longer than the quant team has been. So I just want to say, journalism wins. That's all I got.
Nah, it's fair. It's very fair. What you expect based off the qualitative and based off the analysis versus what the computers are telling you are often quite different.
Yeah, it's one of those things where I'm excited that I beat the machines. Obviously, Alibaba still has a lot of forces playing on it. I'm glad that they're doing well. I want them to be doing way better than they are. I'm still seeing a lot of negative market sentiment towards them. But if you look at our... What am I trying to say here? If you look at the rest of the portfolio, it's rebalanced a lot around energy as well. And so it's a really exciting rebalance. And I'm just excited that Alibaba's a big part of it as we move forward because it's like buying Amazon in 2009 at this point, right?
Yeah. Either way though, obviously this market, Justin, is pandemonium right now. You're going to hear a lot of short term noise and not a lot of long term signal during these periods. And the main thing is just maintain that focus, maintain your consistent investments, but maintain them in a way that ensures that you do not become a forced seller. That's the only true danger you're in at this time. If you have to sell your positions, that's the only thing that's going to damage your long term health as an investor, as a person, anything. This is the easiest game in the world to play as long as you give yourself the appropriate amount of time to play it.
So not too much risk, get aggressive about budgeting, make sure that you are solely expanding your necessity's budget as inflation creeps up on you. And use your budget as a scientific instrument to determine where in your life inflation is popping up, because you will see prices fluctuate wildly across sectors, across geographies. Food inflation here in California, it's not as bad as it is in other parts of the country, since all the food has grown here. So once I get back to the East Coast, I'll be way more concerned about food inflation. But right now my main thing is energy inflation, as gas prices here in California are truly diabolical. I'm pushing [crosstalk 00:27:53] 77 down here. And I live next to the goddamn refinery, dude. Goodness.
So either way, Justin, we're pushing over time here. I really appreciate you being here with me, man, during this really intense development sprint that we're currently doing. You're going to be seeing a lot of really cool news out of us in the next two weeks or so audience, as we put some final details in some cool stuff. But Justin, as we roll through the finals here. Any final thoughts for you to make sure that our audience is maintaining the right direction through this and maintaining the right mindset? Anything else we want to keep in mind before we go ahead and put a bow on this thing?
No, unfortunately, there's a lot more we do want to cover. The agenda today, we probably only covered 50% of it. But I think for us right now and for who's ever listening, it's most important just to keep calm, try and listen to a lot of the advice that we're putting out. We're working really hard behind the scenes and just know, in the long run, things will be okay. If you're a new investor, I'm sure it's terrifying seeing things just go down every single day, but this is why we preach since our inception, that you need to be thinking over a multi-year period.
Exactly. The only thing I was pissed off about, about being an early investor, was not putting more of my budget in. I legitimately put too much into savings when I was a fresh-out-of-college worker in the middle of the 2008 crisis. And that's the only real regret I have. That's not me saying, oh, I think you should put an uncomfortable amount of money in. I'm saying, have confidence, trust that the system always rebounds. It's one of those things where on long-time scales, we have a way of increasing productivity. Pretty much, no matter what, even with goofy historical moments. So, journal a lot too. Your journals might be a lot more valuable because they'll be good historical documents, but make sure you stick to the plan, which is your slow, incremental investment month over month, over month, and you'll power right through this.
Either way, a lot more to discuss. Maybe one day we'll get to a point where we can finally afford the time to do two of these a week, but for now we have gone massively over time on this. So audience, I really appreciate your time. Justin Kramer, co-founder, Chief Analyst here at moby.co. I really appreciate your time as well. I think you were about to hit me with a final point, dude.
No, I think that covered it. I think if people have questions, just feel free to message us in the Discord channel. For people who are majority of our listeners listening on a future podcast, definitely check out the website, definitely join the Discord, there's a lot more information to get there.
Exactly man, and either way audience, I really appreciate your time. And I'm going to go ahead and just read us out here. So audience, just so you know, this podcast was produced, hosted and voiced by me, Peter Starr, our Chief Analyst and co-founder, is the source of all of our intellectual advice here. The actual intellectual source of our information. And that's Justin Kramer, co-founder and CEO here at moby.co
If you have any questions for us, you can hit us up at [email protected]
Make sure you join us over at Discord. You can find a link to that in the description of this podcast episode. Otherwise, audience, just make sure you stick to the plan. And as always, we'd like to leave you with peace, love and incremental gains. Everyone be well, thank you so much.